John Mark Karr Discussion

[Rainsong]

Russell



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 849

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:05 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Regarding Karr, love-hate relationships and responses ... some people do not like being under any type of control or direct influence by others, including another person being able to elicit any type of physiological reaction from them --- e.g., any type of autonomic response, be it from desire, fear, or anger. They have to be the one in full control, and have a “need” to feel as though all of their reactions, their “felt emotions,” are emitted by them rather than elicited by others. Thus, they also have to be in full control of how their “partner” relates to them and the roles they are each to play. Similarly, they actively reject any suggestion that another person understands how they think or feel. Even simple statements (“I know how you feel”) may be viewed as extremely threatening. Such people do not trust others well enough for intimate, reciprocal relationships and tend to create their own idealized, “unreal” character type to fantasize about. The fantasy scenarios are developed across time and circumstance ... and across people, because they can not maintain “satisfying” relationships. Other people are expendable, merely incidental to their “needs” and their fantasy scenarios. Oddly enough, the same basic processes may operate for someone who wants to kill the President, whoever the President may be, as for someone who wants to possess a child (pedophile), or a serial rapist or serial killer. It is just the content of the fantasy scenarios that changes, depending on the reinforcing functions of the scenarios (all fantasies are reinforcing, either positively and/or negatively reinforcing). Fear, anger, and desire have a lot in common. The fantasies strengthen over time, as do related conditioned emotional responses and the cultivated “compulsive” characteristics of the acting-out and risk taking. The fantasy scenarios eventually take on all of the functional characteristics of a strong delusion. IMO, of course.

Russell
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Russell



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Just some additional thoughts on the Karr phone calls ...
From the first two tapes, it is clear that Karr sees himself as relating easily to children of around 8 years of age. This is as much a preference based on cognitive development as it is on physical development. He is “attracted” to them because they are “attracted” to him ... which actually means an 8 year old has not developed the critical thinking skills to counter his various deceptions and manipulations. Eight year olds are still innocent, trusting, and exceptionally “open-minded” --- i.e., open to suggestion, influence, and control. As pedophiles are inclined to do, Karr attributes motives to the objects of his attraction that do not exist, particularly sexual motivations and sexual acting-out. Once he builds any type of trusting relationship (teacher-student) with a child that fits his “type” preferences (affluent, intelligent, 8 year old females, etc.), he interprets their behavior to suit his fantasies. He has spent years “studying” the cognitive-behavioral characteristics of children ... and their parents.

At the beginning of tape three ... Although so far he has not directly stated it, Karr apparently fancies himself as a psychic, specifically a medium. He had wanted to speak with JonBenet’s mother, Patsy, because he had rehearsed how he would present himself to her as an emotional bridge to JonBenet --- i.e., as JonBenet’s channeler. However, JonBenet’s mother died and Karr now has to cultivate a different presentation. His only consideration related to Patsy death is how it affects his plans, particularly the book he is writing and his plan to “connect” Patsy to JonBenet. Patsy’s death has “robbed” him of his opportunity to speak to her. Now, he has to shift his thinking and role playing and “connect” to JonBenet’s father rather than her mother. He has “visions” of Patsy’s empty grave next to JonBenet’s grave ... he role plays weeping, sobbing, etc. as he imagines Patsy would do because of the 10 Christmases she missed with JonBenet and the family ... he starts by “imagining” how Patsy feels just in case John Ramsey will allow him to “connect.”

Half of tape three is all I can handle for now. Karr is so full of himself it is “unreal.”

Maybe we should start a new thread on Karr ...
Russell
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Jade



Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Russell wrote:

Half of tape three is all I can handle for now. Karr is so full of himself it is “unreal.”

Maybe we should start a new thread on Karr ...
Russell


Russell,

Whew! I am hoping to hear these phone calls myself.

Fascinating analysis. I am in favor of starting a separate thread for John Mark Karr.
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ThinkTank



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Russel,

Thank you so much for the time and effort you are putting into this and being willing to share it with the rest of us. I know that can be a huge thing and being willing to share it with no benefit to yourself is certainly admirable.

Thank you.
Think
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Lioness



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Russell wrote:
Just some additional thoughts on the Karr phone calls ...
From the first two tapes, it is clear that Karr sees himself as relating easily to children of around 8 years of age. This is as much a preference based on cognitive development as it is on physical development. Russell


Russell, Do you see any possibility that Karr himself has not developed mentally or emotionally beyond the age of 8?

Also - your analysis on the "connection" he wanted to establish with Patsy - and now that he has been "robbed" of this - seeks to shift that "connection" to the father - is impeccable! Of course, I haven't heard any of the tapes - but from other observations- I'd say your analysis is extremely insightful and on the money!
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Lioness



Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 121

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
oops - I forgot to ask one more question. With people like Karr - do you think the desire to control these responses (therefore attracted to children who are not fully and cognitively developed) might have a tiny bit to do with ensuring himself against rejection?
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Survivor



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Very interesting, Russell. Thank you. I'm assuming that this could also reflect upon "adult" victims as well. Possibly those who are naive, child-like, possibly abused, and sheltered, who may lack enormously in the social skill area and can be spotted by potential prey, as well, as targets?
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Russell



Joined: 28 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Lioness,

Karr is intellectually sharp and has good analytic skills, but is lacking in his understanding of other people as individuals, in much the same manner as someone who is emotionally immature. I will be interested in seeing how he rates related to Asperger’s Disorder. That would certainly explain a lot.

Regarding Karr and rejection, he has zero tolerance for anyone who tells him what to do or what not to do, which would include a zero tolerance for rejection.

Survivor, IMO you are correct about there being adult victims who unintentionally attract the attention of predators, including the elderly ... even the dead.

ThinkTank, if I wasn’t getting some type of benefit from the process, I wouldn’t be doing it. Of course, any good behaviorist would tell you that. Very Happy

I wish I had finished listening to tape three earlier. The last five minutes really did have me laughing out loud. They confirmed my thoughts about Karr thinking he is a psychic, or at least his efforts to convince others that he has special powers (very schizotypal), and demonstrated what an emotional manipulator he is ... he was trying to keep the conversation going and used every ploy in his arsenal ... they didn’t work.

Russell
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Survivor



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 8:14 pm Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi, Russell. What do you mean "even the dead"? Are you saying they can even attract prey????

As far as the psychic,,..... do you think demon possession can involve "psychic" revelations? (Whoa, probably not a good question, huh?)
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"Better to face your dangers than to live a life of fear."
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Rainsong

There are people who believe their path is the only path. If you've found a path of spirit that takes you where you need to go, stay on it.

We'll all meet at the top of the mountain.

[Rainsong]

You guys are making me work too hard!
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Rainsong

There are people who believe their path is the only path. If you've found a path of spirit that takes you where you need to go, stay on it.

We'll all meet at the top of the mountain.

[ThinkTank]

LOL Rainsong,

Think how Russell is feeling right about now. LOL

Think
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[Survivor]

Jack? (Not been here long, am a bit behind.)
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"Better to face your dangers than to live a life of fear."

[Survivor]

Think Tank, it took me 2 days to get my hair fixed just right for my pic and you didn't even comment on it! LOL
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"Better to face your dangers than to live a life of fear."

[shadowraiths]

[Survivor]

[jack]

Whooh! I felt this sudden psychic tug....
I have been lurking- just haven't had much to contribute. As for demon possession, I don't believe in it, but if someone thinks they are posessed, they might as well be, they are that screwed up.
Russell, I find this all very interesting and you seem to be seeing this guy correctly. If you post something I dissagree with, or something I can add to, I'll chime in. Otherwise, I'll shut up. (I know, highly uncharacteristic!)

jack

[Rainsong]

[jack]

I'm getting too well known around here.
Just to clear up one thing, I'm five feet ten inches tall and weigh 195 and work out, so "pencil neck" isn't a good discription! Lol!

jack

[Survivor]

Hello, Jack.
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"Better to face your dangers than to live a life of fear."

[jack]

Hi, Survivor,
Glad to meet you! Might as well plug the book!
www.lulu.con/content/186817

jack

[Survivor]

[jack]

Click on the link. It will explain itself.

[Subdivisions]