JonBenet New Discussion

[WOLFPACK]

[Fionatds]

Ok, last year didn't they prove that all the Ramsey's were excluded from the DNA found on JonBenet, with a new kind of DNA test, or was that something else I was thinking of?
_________________
"Oh skycake, why are you so delicious." Patton Oswalt.

[WOLFPACK]

similarities ins some respect to Jon Benet..aka intruder enters house and either kidnaps or rapes/attemps to rape child/or kidnaps child and either escapes the house when the homeowner/parent becomes aware of it and/ or in a couple of cases escapes unobserved and is only caught later on..or in a few cases hasn't ever been caught/identified.
In a few cases he was caught outside the house by LE.
We could discuss some of those cases.I have mentioned a few...but there are others. There was one in Nashville a few years back.The guy was caught outside the house with night vison goggles.

So it's entirely possible.

Of course the perp had been in Ramsey house.
Perhaps he broke in and surveyed it when the family was out of town.Or he might have been inside as a repair/service employee. Or he could have purloined a key from the Ramseys or from someone else who had one for a legitimate purpose.

I don't agree that the fact the perp apparently knows the layout of the inside of the house narrows the suspect field.
Apparently there were several keys to the house and the Ramseys couldn't account for all of them/had lost track of some of them.

As it is we have to assume the DA's office did due dillegence as the Boulder PD apparently did not.
I realize Chris is critical of the former DA for exonerating the Ramseys but there's no proof they were responsible for Job Benet's death so exonerating them, to me, seems a logical step.
There was too much focus on them in the mistaken belief that someone couldn't do something like this and escape being caught by the parents.

As we have seen in other cases it is possible for someone to do just that.

[The Real Suspect Zero]

Hi Wolfy..

You asked; "If it was a staged scene then the dna must either be from the 3rd world garmet worker suggested on websleuths and other forums where MR D is oftentimes put down and the Ramseys pronounced as guilty of murdering Jon Benet...
Or the dna was planted by the Ramseys or one of the Ramseys or someone acting on theri orders ?

So which is it ?"

If I knew that one I'd be famous and probably working as a criminal profiler for the Boulder PD, my friend..

No information has been released as to the ethnicity of the owner of this dna sample, therefore if we knew this it would narrow down the suspect pool considerably, as far as to ethnicity goes.

We don't even know the origins of this particular pair of panties by the way.
Her own mother claimed she had no idea as to where that pair came from and why they were several sizes larger than what was found in the home belonging to Jonbenet.
Then Patsy told investigators that JonBenet wanted to wear the huge underwear and so Patsy had given in.
Underwear that size would never have stayed up on such a small girl.


They were a brand-new pair of size 12-14, when JonBenet wore size 4-6. The person who redressed her in these panties wanted to be sure her underwear had "Wednesday" on them, since she was wearing that pair the night before.
There were no other pairs discovered being that size and that in itself is very unusual.
Where are the others that would have been in the same package/accompanying this pair?
Well..
The Bloomies underwear come in a package of seven, one for each day of the week.
The package that was opened supposedly to put on JonBenet was not recovered in the house, but was surrendered to police five years after the crime.
It had been in the Ramsey’s possession all that time, supposedly in a box.


Chris
_________________
It's best you don't know what's going to happen next.

[WOLFPACK]

easy enough when you've been traumatized and accused of killing your own daughter by the police.

The perp could have kept the original undies as a trophy.

As I feel he had a thing for Jon Benet, if true, not a surprise he would want to keep those and so he could relive the experience and fantasize about it.

We assume the police had someone like Dr Frudakis do a more thorough profile to discern the ethnicity of the perp.
Why they aren't disclosing that is their choice I would assume.

[The Real Suspect Zero]

I'd like to add a few items for consideration even though we have duscussed this case in the recent past..


1. Why didn't the Ramseys tell the police that construction workers remodeled the kitchen prior to Thanksgiving and may have gone to the basement for tools and water?
Were they afraid the "shoeprints" would be identified?

2. IF the "alledged intruder" had gained entry into this residence via the famous basement window, then why hadn't there been any indication on the dust of the sill of his having used his hands to either grab or place on the sill as he descended through the window, the dust here was undisturbed?

There's so many more questions to ponder but let us start here, shall we?


Chris
_________________
It's best you don't know what's going to happen next.

[The Real Suspect Zero]

Wolfy had written; "The perp could have kept the original undies as a trophy.

As I feel he had a thing for Jon Benet, if true, not a surprise he would want to keep those and so he could relive the experience and fantasize about it."

Well..
His keeping trophies??
You are somewhat presenting this offender in a light that reflects most serial offenders such as serial killers, serial rapists and serial pedophiles.
In this case, I suspect he'd fall under the serial pedophile typology since the victim was a 7-year-old child.

No similar pattern of behavior has been observed/identified prior to this murder nor after/since.
Where are his subsequent crimes?

Do you believe he went through all he had and after getting away with it, he simply stopped offending?
Seems to me his MO worked out just fine in this case, it's proven itself worthy, so why not continue to utilize it as most, if not nearly all, such criminals do?

Chris
_________________
It's best you don't know what's going to happen next.

[The Real Suspect Zero]

"In the summer of "96, JonBenet started wearing those diaper type underpants-Pull-Ups.
She even wore them to bed.
There was always a wet one in the trash.
By the end of the summer, Patsy was trying to get her to do without them.
Then JonBenet started wetting the bed again.
Almost every day I was there, there was a wet bed."

-Linda Hoffmann-Pugh-
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town
by Lawrence Schiller (Pages 198 through 202)


1. Why was there no mention of Jonbenet having worn pullups the night of her murder or none having been discovered in the home by investigators?

2. Was this taser gun used before, or after, this "intruder" served JonBenet some pineapple, sat there with her while she ate it, and then let her digest it for an hour or two?

3. In the 'intruder' theory, why would the kidnapper leave the multi-page, entirely too detailed/extraneous information ransome note on the stairs as opposed to in the child's bedroom from where she was abducted?
That would be the more logical place given the intent.




More questions left unanswered because no one can give a viable response.

Chris
_________________
It's best you don't know what's going to happen next.

[The Real Suspect Zero]

Chris, what do you think about this?

"In a nutshell, there were a number of varying injuries - the skull fractures, the strangulation, the genital injuries, the ligatures, the 'stun gun or not' marks, etc. and the 'death scene' would've taken a fair amount of time. The appearance of her room didn't seem to indicate any sign of a struggle at all and it's unlikely she woke up in the night and voluntarily went with or was lured downstairs. She was 6 and over protected...at best, she'd have logically gone to her parents' room to get them up, or just have started screaming in her room which would've roused them.

Seems to me she was rendered unconscious or at least subdued while she was alseep, that the ligature around her neck was put around her while she was in the bed sleeping and she was strangled there. That or she was hit in the back of the head right off and that did it, which is what my feelings are."
-Joan (last name omitted)


Again, I'd have to ask about the pinapple Jonbent had been given to eat before her death since her mother said she had not had any before being put to bed.
How do you place this into this particular scenario?
This particular element screws up the above scenario.

Chris
_________________
It's best you don't know what's going to happen next.

[Fionatds]

I have another question. Since JonBenet was active in beauty pageants. Were all of the people involved in these events excluded as well? I can't remember if I have ever heard that information. Also would it be plausable for the perp to have come in contact with her that way?
_________________
"Oh skycake, why are you so delicious." Patton Oswalt.

[The Real Suspect Zero]

Hi, Fionatds..

Well certainly, if that were something to be seriously considered.
But I don't give it much thought as I feel the evidence points in a particular direction.

Chris
_________________
It's best you don't know what's going to happen next.

[WOLFPACK]

[The Real Suspect Zero]

If the culprit were still out there??

Regardless as to where or in what capacity..

Considering such profound symbolism and extent of behaviors noted in the Jonbenet Ramsey murder case in particular, I feel they would have shown themself at some point.

This has never happend.
Nor do I expect it ever will.
I think the culprit died recently.

Chris
_________________
It's best you don't know what's going to happen next.

[WOLFPACK]

no proof of that..and you choose to ignore the male dna found.

Nor has there ever been , to my recollection a single case of dna being planted.The only case that comes close is a Forensic Files case where the perp planted fibers to throw off the police.

So you need to find/come up with some evidence to make your case friend.And you can't come up with any.

I don't see any proof either in her behavior towards Jon Benet that Patsy would ever have harmed her either.No reports made to Child Services or statements either from Patsy, her family , friends or acquaintances that they had ever seen or heard Patsy abusing Jon Benet.

So there's no proof and no evidence.

You're welcomed to keep trying though...lol....

[watson]

Fionatds,
I noticed you mentioned DNA awhile back. As I recall the problem with the DNA in this case is that it's not from a seperate sample and may not be related to the murderer. The only samples in the case, a small blood stain, and material under the victims nails, turned out to be mostly the DNA of the victim, mixed with other DNA. That if that other DNA came from 1 individual (can't be sure of that) then all the Ramsey's are excluded from being that 1 individual.
Problem is unlike other cases where we have a seperate sample of the offenders blood or body fluid left behind at the scene, so we can easily get a DNA profile of the offender. we don't have that in this case. Only samples that are mostly the victims DNA mixed with a small amount of foreign DNA. We can't even be sure if that foreign DNA is from 1 person, or a mixture of people, in which case the DNA profile eventually teased from it, is of a person that never existed. Or if it was from 1 person that it's not the DNA of a person the victim innocently came into contact with.