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AK

Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 114
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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THE CASE FOR TED KACZYNSKI AS THE ZODIAC
Could the known code expert, bomb designer and cold blooded murderer Theodore Kaczynski have been the Zodiac, who shared all those same qualities and traits? Kaczynski taught at U Cal Berkeley from 1967 to 1969, a position for which he interviewed in the Fall/Winter of 1966. So he was in the SF Bay area for all the key dates of Zodiac activity. In all the public records, there are no conflicts between Kaczynski and known Zodiac murder and mailing dates. An attorney for Kaczynski said that no ailibi's could be presented for any of the Zodiac murder and mailing dates between 1966 and 1974. A witness has placed Kaczynski at the scene of the East Coast Zodiac type knife murder of fellow U of M grad Betsy Aardsma in the Penn State University library on November 28, 1969.
KACZYNSKI AND ZODIAC CONNECTION TO DEER LODGE, MONTANA
One very interesting fact: Zodiac said on 9/27/69 to Bryan Hartnell that he had escaped from "Deer Lodge, Montana", an obscure but beautiful small town that has a state prison. How many people in California would have heard of that town, and why would it be on their minds that they would mention it? I think the number would be very small. But Ted had just driven through or by this tiny town in the middle of nowhere with his brother weeks earlier, and he remarked how beautiful an area it was. It made such an impression that it was within an hour of where Ted would buy the cabin he would live in the rest of his life.
OVERVIEW OF BASIC FACTS SUGGESTING CONNECTION BETWEEN KACZYNSKI AND THE ZODIAC KILLER
* Kacsynski lived in the SF Bay area during the time of most of the confirmed Zodiac murders.
* Kaczynski's attorney said he could not provide any alibi dates for Zodiac murder and mailing dates, starting with Bates in 1966 and going to the 1974 letters, and also including the Santa Barbara murders in 1963 and the Swindle murders in 1964.
* Both Zodiac and Kaczynski were ruthless killers, highly intelligent and interested in and expert at bombs and codes.
* Both made references to opera, literature and Norse myths.
* Both demanded their words be published on the front pages of newspapers on penalty of death for innocents if not done.
* Both threatened to bomb mass transit.
* Both left drawings of crossed lines inside circles at crime scenes.
* Both used crossed lines inside circles as signatures.
* Both sent taunting messages to police and victims.
* Both usually used excessive postage, often double postage.
* Both wrote checkmark "r" 's, three stroke "k" 's, five stroke "m" 's and had many other handwriting matches.
* Both commented on the bounty put on their head.
* Both were filled with hatred and a desire for revenge against society.
* Both owned and used Winchester Western .22 Super X ammo.
* Both had guns with flashlights attached to the barrel.
* Kaczynski shot a miner with a rifle - Zodiac threatened to shoot school kids on a bus with a rifle
* Both had an unusual walk - Officer Fouke said the man he saw at the Stine crime scene walked with a "lumbering gait...a semi-limp", a girl at Lake Berryessa observed that a man watching them who may have been the Zodiac "favored one leg over the other", and David Kaczynski said his brother Ted was "noticably pigeon-toed" and that it "affected the way he walked".
* Both had knowledge of Deer Lodge, Montana.
* Zodiac taunted police, hinted he shot SFPD Officer Radetich and most importantly attacked and killed couples in known love making spots; Kaczynski recorded a desire in his journal to kill "police", "rowdy college students", "promiscuous" women and men and "noisy" love making "couples" in September of 1966.
A detective on the EAR/ONS case has determined that Ted Kaczynski has never had his DNA entered into CODIS, and indeed has never even had DNA drawn from his body, despite two seperate federal laws mandating it. |
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chrisebeyhoneycutt
Joined: 15 Jan 2010 Posts: 472
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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Hi AK!
I finally put my finger on it (why I was so inimical to the idea that TK was the Zodiac):
It sounded like a conspiracy theory.
Since I'm the last person on the planet who should discard explainations that sound like conspiracy theories simply on the basis of that perception, I'm opening my mind, and really taking a look at your analysis.
I've been wanting to write a book on TK for a while now, and I have a lot of good data on him that might be useful. I don't know if you write/are a writer, but maybe some of the nice people here could give some advice (do you get an agent before you start writing? Or after? Do you even need an agent at all? What are some good publishers for first-time writers? etc.) I think I can help you in your analysis, in part, because I am a former mathematician myself (applied, soft sciences [biology, geology, biogeochemistry], but have a degree in math and have hung out with mathematicians for a long time. They have some startling psychologies that most people wouldn't really suspect [no, not just the whole "John Nash - Pi - 'they're craaazzzyy!!!!" thing].)
Just a question: why do you post in such large font? On my machine it makes it hard to read.
See you on the forum!
- Chris _________________ Dr. Chris Honeycutt, PhD
Interests: Criminology, terrorism, religious extremism, sexual predators
[Note: degrees in mathematics, biology and geology; just starting psychology]
Profiling is interesting... Crinoids are BORING! |
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sherry a. smith

Joined: 31 Aug 2009 Posts: 888 Location: Louisiana
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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In my opinion, Zodiac is someone who was well known by the police in that area and he was someone who they didn't suspect because they trusted him and that is why he was able to get away with what he did. If detectives were to re-examine those persons they were in contact with that were not LE they would most likely find the Zodiac killer. Especially any person who was related to a cop or very good friends with, who could have passed along or carried information for or to him, so that his physical presence wasn't always seen by LE, unless he appeared to have a valid reason for being there. It may even be possible that he could have caused a rift of some sort between those within the department. I don't think Zodiac is some mystical shadow and I don't think he's dead. There are to many crimes that could be Zodiac crimes that haven't been solved that have occured over many years and states, since Zodiac has disappeared or rather no longer goes by that name. I also believe that Zodiac is a satanist who has followers, that commit crimes for him. He may well have been connected to the Manson cult and someone who wasn't there when the farm was raided by police, and for whatever reason others won't tell, probably out of fear, but I believe there are those who do know who he is.
As for those handwriting samples: Even if someone did know who Zodiac was and he gave them a handwriting sample or LE obtained a sample without his knowledge, it's doubtful the writings would match, because as people get older their handwriting changes. Handwriting is like art and as a person grows they can if they desire, perfect their skill.
Deer Lodge may not necessarily represent a location it could be like:
Deer - Dear - (wife or girlfriend)
Lodge- temporary dwelling place where they lived
IMO - Zodiac was someone who was married, possibly more than once and had children which he didn't really want. And when he wrote about shooting the kiddie's when they come bouncing off the bus, he may well have been thinking of shooting his own kids.
Anyway, just a few new ideas. |
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chrisebeyhoneycutt
Joined: 15 Jan 2010 Posts: 472
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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Hi AK!
A "game key" is a cipher for... well, a game. It explains parts of the game, and is either a cheat or provided to give an advantage. (This is very much in the same spirit as hackers, who are extremely playful and enjoy leaving riddles and keys to their identity.
I'm sorry I'm recycling so much; this is another bit from the "game key" conversation I had with someone else by email:
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Brief Outline of "Not Part of the Game" Hypothesis for The Manifesto
I'm not saying that Kaczynski didn't hope that The Manifesto would spark a revolution - I actually believe he did wish that, for multiple reasons. First, I think he believes that society would be better off after such a revolution. Second (and this is more subtle): he wouldn't be alone, and would, in fact, be a father to a new society, a power position he desperately craved.
But I don't believe that Kaczynski expected that - I think he believed it less, in fact, than Dahmer believed his "experiments" would work in his most lucid moments.
The bombs predating the Manifesto all use devices to attempt to deflect attention, not gain it. They are purposely designed to look as though they belonged to some organized group, but not connected. This, I feel, was Kaczynski's "inner gamer," an important component, I feel of mathematical and computer-orientated minds in general. Also, I suspect lawyers have an "inner gamer" as well, but that's not the point of discussion here.
The bombs were, in my mind, definately designed with the "Nah-nah, I'm so smart. See what happens? Smart-smart." idea in mind: vengeful. But playful.
But the Manifesto is different. For one thing, he actively tried to communicate his ideas to the widest audience possible, by making the language and ideas easily understood by any audience (he's a terrible writer, by the way. But the points are very clear, and, while "dry" in style, it definately does have the "this is meant for kindergartners" feel to it.) He also, in many ways, bared his heart and soul in it. For one thing, the semi-joking remark (that also conveys a sad loneliness):
19. (Paragraph 123) Just think an irresponsible genetic engineer might create a lot of terrorists. [from the endnotes]
Kaczynski (and this comes up a lot) has long been curious as to why his genes are not desirable, in fact, not actively sought after. This semi-joking remark conveys both his sense of humor (which also manifested itself in the bomb making process) and his "desire to reproduce." I put it in quotes, in part, because I think that's how he thinks of it; that's how I think of it, and on that point (human reproduction) we, I suspect, view the world in a similar light.
This, and many other points, convey this document to be, while stylistically dry, a deeply personal, deeply emotional document. Other points along those lines:
On the other hand the pursuit of sex and love (for example) is not a surrogate activity, because most people, even if their existence were otherwise satisfactory, would feel deprived if they passed their lives without ever having a relationship with a member of the opposite sex. (But pursuit of an excessive amount of sex, more than one really needs, can be a surrogate activity.)
Kaczynski himself has passed a life without that, and is desiring to convey the life he leads as "otherwise satisfactory," something that I doubt he actually felt. I doubt he felt that way simply because of his isolation - I think the lonliness aspect is what was so desperate. If his brother had actually stayed with him, then I think that Kaczynski would have fared far better.
The second portion of the statement also conveys several important points, the most important from an ideological standpoint is that he really did hope this Manifesto would work to lead a revolution and bring others into the wilderness. Why? Because throughout the document, he continually avoids any definition, limitation or criticism of women. I think he was hoping some "chicks" would come wandering into the forest for him. I'm not kidding. Seemed like an off chance, even to him, but he certainly was concerned about screwing it up. Also, conveys something important about his psychology: I think he has a very infantile sexuality. He seems to be seriously asking the question "Do... do girls... do girls like sex?"
Back to the topic at hand: why I think the Manifesto was a "okay. Fine. Come get me. Either this is going to end in revolution, or I'm gonna get caught." document at some level. Everything up to this point was trying to deflect attention, and remove himself, and part of some sort of sick "game" he was playing with "the outside world." But this was deeply emotional, personal, and, I think, reflected his actual views on the world. This was supposed to be his legacy, or at least the game key to decipher his behavior.
So, no matter what, it was a terminal event, and was intended to be, in my view. |
_________________ Dr. Chris Honeycutt, PhD
Interests: Criminology, terrorism, religious extremism, sexual predators
[Note: degrees in mathematics, biology and geology; just starting psychology]
Profiling is interesting... Crinoids are BORING! |
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chrisebeyhoneycutt
Joined: 15 Jan 2010 Posts: 472
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Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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What's hilarious is that I argued vehemently against TK's publicity motivation, but with this Zodiac hypothesis, I'm now re-questioning it. And the other point of humor is that the guy who argued vehemently for the publicity argument would probably think the Zodiac hypothesis is ludicrious (is it? Or is it just because it sounds like conspiracy? Even though it's obviously not. It's just weird. But the more I live, the more I find: it's a weird, weird universe. It really is.)
- C _________________ Dr. Chris Honeycutt, PhD
Interests: Criminology, terrorism, religious extremism, sexual predators
[Note: degrees in mathematics, biology and geology; just starting psychology]
Profiling is interesting... Crinoids are BORING! |
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chrisebeyhoneycutt
Joined: 15 Jan 2010 Posts: 472
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Hi AK!
Maybe we should break this discussion off into another thread? Once again, I'm not necessarily supporting your hypothesis. But you've obviously collected loads and loads of evidence which is definately, at minimum, worth reviewing.
I'd like to comment on your points:
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| Kacsynski lived in the SF Bay area during the time of most of the confirmed Zodiac murders. |
While this definately does not suggest he is the murder, it definately removes one possible point of contention. Where is this cited? Where did you learn this?
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| Kaczynski's attorney said he could not provide any alibi dates for Zodiac murder and mailing dates, starting with Bates in 1966 and going to the 1974 letters, and also including the Santa Barbara murders in 1963 and the Swindle murders in 1964. |
Why was he questioned on this point? Was this part of his trial? Do you have... transcripts? I had a #%$& time trying to get them myself. If you do, good on you and... can I have a copy?
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| Both Zodiac and Kaczynski were ruthless killers, highly intelligent and interested in and expert at bombs and codes. |
Honestly? Zodiac's codes weren't very good, just hard to break. I discuss this earlier in this thread, but this is a h-ll of a thread (which is why I think we might want to break this off and recopy the relevant material.
Simple explaination of why the Zodiac's codes were easy to make but hard to break: they're simple multicharacter substitution. And that's hard to break when you get a relatively short message that's got a lot of substitutions.
Why? Suppose that you have a message of 100 characters using all the alphabet. If you devise one symbol for each character - that is, if you code it with 100 unique characters - it will be impossible to break. Make perfect sense to you, of course, which is where the humor is. But completely impossible to break, while being very simple to devise.
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| Both made references to opera, literature and Norse myths. |
Uh-oh. That is an indicator of interest and IQ. However, what is your evidence for his interest in Norse mythology?
(If you ever want to get into a discussion on the deeper Indo-European myth system, and how it relates to symbolism, particularly among offenders and the criminally insane, I'd love to get into that. I'd love to get into that with anyone; I lived in Denmark for years, and I've read not only the myths but the Snorri Eddas itself. Very fascinating, highly influential even in non-Nordic cultures - not surprising, as they're Teutonic myths as well. The Ring Cycle, for example, is part of the same system.
Am I being creepy on purpose? A little. But I do like these things, and I do like to discuss them.)
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| Both demanded their words be published on the front pages of newspapers on penalty of death for innocents if not done. |
I'm not so sure this is a strong sticking point; my analysis of the Manifesto is above, and I believe it was intended to be a terminal event. If you disagree, I'd love to hear why. If you can't articulate it, try your best to associate it, and I'll help you with your own argument. (Yes, I do do that.)
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| Both threatened to bomb mass transit. |
Both threatened; we know TK did.
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| Both left drawings of crossed lines inside circles at crime scenes. |
Okay, for most people, this would be a "so, big deal" thing. Not me.
I myself have always had loads and loads of little personal symbols. I think most kids do. But if you've gone all brain-leaky - that is, if you're psychotic or schzophrenic or some other condition where images and experiences of the subconscious leak into the conscious mind either voluntarily or involuntarily - those symbols become very important again, and you adapt them. (Mine always included hearts and swords, myself. Or a "grasshopper mouse," which was my personal self-made crest as a kid.
Would love to hear if others made personal crests or symbols for themselves as kids. Most kids will keep that secret from adults - I only knew that a few others did it, so I don't know how prevalent it is. And I also, as a teacher, haven't seen it, because, like I said, kids hide it as a personal "totem" from adults, in my experience.)
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| Both used crossed lines inside circles as signatures. |
Discussed above.
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| Both sent taunting messages to police and victims. |
It definately puts them both in the "gamer" category of offender. (No offense to gamers, of course.)
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| Both usually used excessive postage, often double postage. |
That's an obsessive, neurotic tendancy. I'm pretty sure that just means "sickness" plus "I really want this to get there."
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| Both wrote checkmark "r" 's, three stroke "k" 's, five stroke "m" 's and had many other handwriting matches. |
Not an expert, not even a hobbiest, but they look strong to me.
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| Both commented on the bounty put on their head. |
Point of pride in the "gamer" category: says "this is my worth!!!"
It might be interesting to invite offenders to suggest bounties; they might come out of the woodwork. So might kooks, but if you've already got a tight communication sample (e.g. handwriting and fingerprints), you can weed out reporters who want a story and general kooks pretty easily.
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| Both were filled with hatred and a desire for revenge against society. |
I'm not sure if the Zodiac was targeting society, or if it was purely sexual. (If it was, that doesn't preclude Kaczynski; like I said, we would expect his psychology to evolve suddenly and unexpectedly.)
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| Both owned and used Winchester Western .22 Super X ammo. |
Might be interesting to discuss what movies/books/other media might have built a picture for offenders where Winchesters are the "gun of choice" - get an idea of the image of himself, either each independently, or both together.
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| Both had guns with flashlights attached to the barrel. |
Could just be for aiming in both cases (ever seen "Dirty Harry"?)
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| Kaczynski shot a miner with a rifle - Zodiac threatened to shoot school kids on a bus with a rifle |
Where is the miner incident documented, can I ask?
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| Both had an unusual walk - Officer Fouke said the man he saw at the Stine crime scene walked with a "lumbering gait...a semi-limp", a girl at Lake Berryessa observed that a man watching them who may have been the Zodiac "favored one leg over the other", and David Kaczynski said his brother Ted was "noticably pigeon-toed" and that it "affected the way he walked". |
Good parellel. And point: offenders often have things they deem physical defects of some sort.
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| Both had knowledge of Deer Lodge, Montana. |
Where's the record of this for Zodiac?
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| Zodiac taunted police, hinted he shot SFPD Officer Radetich and most importantly attacked and killed couples in known love making spots; Kaczynski recorded a desire in his journal to kill "police", "rowdy college students", "promiscuous" women and men and "noisy" love making "couples" in September of 1966. |
This I think is a very strong point.
By the way, do you know where I can get TK's book? Amazon's not carrying it at the moment.
Thanks,
Chris _________________ Dr. Chris Honeycutt, PhD
Interests: Criminology, terrorism, religious extremism, sexual predators
[Note: degrees in mathematics, biology and geology; just starting psychology]
Profiling is interesting... Crinoids are BORING! |
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AK

Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 114
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe we should break this discussion off into another thread? Once again, I'm not necessarily supporting your hypothesis. But you've obviously collected loads and loads of evidence which is definately, at minimum, worth reviewing.
I'd like to comment on your points:
Quote:
Kacsynski lived in the SF Bay area during the time of most of the confirmed Zodiac murders.
While this definately does not suggest he is the murder, it definately removes one possible point of contention. Where is this cited? Where did you learn this?
AK - Records indicate Kaczynski taught as a math professor at U Cal Berkeley from at least Fall 67 to Summer 69, and he visited for interviews and campus tour in Fall/Winter 66.
Quote:
Kaczynski's attorney said he could not provide any alibi dates for Zodiac murder and mailing dates, starting with Bates in 1966 and going to the 1974 letters, and also including the Santa Barbara murders in 1963 and the Swindle murders in 1964.
Why was he questioned on this point? Was this part of his trial? Do you have... transcripts? I had a #%$& time trying to get them myself. If you do, good on you and... can I have a copy?
AK - No not part of trial. Doug Oswell wrote to Kaczynski and another writer wrote to Ted's attorney. Kaczynski never responded and the attorney said alibi dates could not be provided, not would not, but COULD not.
Quote:
Both Zodiac and Kaczynski were ruthless killers, highly intelligent and interested in and expert at bombs and codes.
Honestly? Zodiac's codes weren't very good, just hard to break. I discuss this earlier in this thread, but this is a h-ll of a thread (which is why I think we might want to break this off and recopy the relevant material.
Simple explaination of why the Zodiac's codes were easy to make but hard to break: they're simple multicharacter substitution. And that's hard to break when you get a relatively short message that's got a lot of substitutions.
Why? Suppose that you have a message of 100 characters using all the alphabet. If you devise one symbol for each character - that is, if you code it with 100 unique characters - it will be impossible to break. Make perfect sense to you, of course, which is where the humor is. But completely impossible to break, while being very simple to devise.
AK - Hmm, disagree with you here. The FBI couldn't break them. Working with a poster named Kite, I have come up with proposed solutions to the unsolved codes, but nobody has validated that yet.
Quote:
Both made references to opera, literature and Norse myths.
Uh-oh. That is an indicator of interest and IQ. However, what is your evidence for his interest in Norse mythology?
AK - Zodiac wrote a letter about the SLA, and how it was a Norse word meaning "kill". Kaczynski wrote a Norse symbol, Yggdrasil/Algiz Rune, at the campus of a target, had a copy of the Prose Edda in his cabin and referenced Wagner opera. Zodiac referenced Mikado opera.
(If you ever want to get into a discussion on the deeper Indo-European myth system, and how it relates to symbolism, particularly among offenders and the criminally insane, I'd love to get into that. I'd love to get into that with anyone; I lived in Denmark for years, and I've read not only the myths but the Snorri Eddas itself. Very fascinating, highly influential even in non-Nordic cultures - not surprising, as they're Teutonic myths as well. The Ring Cycle, for example, is part of the same system.
Am I being creepy on purpose? A little. But I do like these things, and I do like to discuss them.)
Quote:
Both demanded their words be published on the front pages of newspapers on penalty of death for innocents if not done.
I'm not so sure this is a strong sticking point; my analysis of the Manifesto is above, and I believe it was intended to be a terminal event. If you disagree, I'd love to hear why. If you can't articulate it, try your best to associate it, and I'll help you with your own argument. (Yes, I do do that.)
AK - I will have to study what you wrote more.
Quote:
Both threatened to bomb mass transit.
Both threatened; we know TK did.
AK - Yes. Both also issued a bomb threat and then declared it a prank.
Quote:
Both left drawings of crossed lines inside circles at crime scenes.
Okay, for most people, this would be a "so, big deal" thing. Not me.
I myself have always had loads and loads of little personal symbols. I think most kids do. But if you've gone all brain-leaky - that is, if you're psychotic or schzophrenic or some other condition where images and experiences of the subconscious leak into the conscious mind either voluntarily or involuntarily - those symbols become very important again, and you adapt them. (Mine always included hearts and swords, myself. Or a "grasshopper mouse," which was my personal self-made crest as a kid.
Would love to hear if others made personal crests or symbols for themselves as kids. Most kids will keep that secret from adults - I only knew that a few others did it, so I don't know how prevalent it is. And I also, as a teacher, haven't seen it, because, like I said, kids hide it as a personal "totem" from adults, in my experience.)
AK - See http://unazod.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60
Quote:
Both used crossed lines inside circles as signatures.
Discussed above.
Quote:
Both sent taunting messages to police and victims.
It definately puts them both in the "gamer" category of offender. (No offense to gamers, of course.)
Quote:
Both usually used excessive postage, often double postage.
That's an obsessive, neurotic tendancy. I'm pretty sure that just means "sickness" plus "I really want this to get there."
Quote:
Both wrote checkmark "r" 's, three stroke "k" 's, five stroke "m" 's and had many other handwriting matches.
Not an expert, not even a hobbiest, but they look strong to me.
AK - Yes
Quote:
Both commented on the bounty put on their head.
Point of pride in the "gamer" category: says "this is my worth!!!"
It might be interesting to invite offenders to suggest bounties; they might come out of the woodwork. So might kooks, but if you've already got a tight communication sample (e.g. handwriting and fingerprints), you can weed out reporters who want a story and general kooks pretty easily.
Quote:
Both were filled with hatred and a desire for revenge against society.
I'm not sure if the Zodiac was targeting society, or if it was purely sexual. (If it was, that doesn't preclude Kaczynski; like I said, we would expect his psychology to evolve suddenly and unexpectedly.)
AK - Zodiac threatening sniper and bomb attacks on school bus is hatred of society, terrorizing society.
Quote:
Both owned and used Winchester Western .22 Super X ammo.
Might be interesting to discuss what movies/books/other media might have built a picture for offenders where Winchesters are the "gun of choice" - get an idea of the image of himself, either each independently, or both together.
Quote:
Both had guns with flashlights attached to the barrel.
Could just be for aiming in both cases (ever seen "Dirty Harry"?)
Quote:
Kaczynski shot a miner with a rifle - Zodiac threatened to shoot school kids on a bus with a rifle
Where is the miner incident documented, can I ask?
AK - FBI says it was recorded in his diary, miner did not die, thus it was past statute of limitations.
Quote:
Both had an unusual walk - Officer Fouke said the man he saw at the Stine crime scene walked with a "lumbering gait...a semi-limp", a girl at Lake Berryessa observed that a man watching them who may have been the Zodiac "favored one leg over the other", and David Kaczynski said his brother Ted was "noticably pigeon-toed" and that it "affected the way he walked".
Good parellel. And point: offenders often have things they deem physical defects of some sort.
Quote:
Both had knowledge of Deer Lodge, Montana.
Where's the record of this for Zodiac?
AK - Zodiac said on 9/27/69 to Bryan Hartnell that he had escaped from prison in "Deer Lodge, Montana", an obscure but beautiful small town that has a state prison. How many people in California would have heard of that town, and why would it be on their minds that they would mention it? I think the number would be very small. But Ted had just driven through or by this tiny town in the middle of nowhere with his brother weeks earlier, and he remarked how beautiful an area it was. It made such an impression that it was within an hour of where Ted would buy the cabin he would live in the rest of his life.
Quote:
Zodiac taunted police, hinted he shot SFPD Officer Radetich and most importantly attacked and killed couples in known love making spots; Kaczynski recorded a desire in his journal to kill "police", "rowdy college students", "promiscuous" women and men and "noisy" love making "couples" in September of 1966.
This I think is a very strong point.
AK - Yes.
By the way, do you know where I can get TK's book? Amazon's not carrying it at the moment.
AK - I discussed Ted Kaczynski's new book "Road to Revolution", which is the Europe version. It has now been published in America (I think it is essentially the same book) as "Technological Slavery" with a tasteless picture of a bomb on the cover.
Highly advise you and all interested check out www.unazod.com and also read Doug Oswell's excellent book "The Unabomber and the Zodiac". I have about 300 pages of notes and have toyed with the idea of turning it into a book. |
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AK

Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 114
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:07 pm Post subject: Letter To Ted Kaczynski Asking For Proof Of Alibi For Zodiac |
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Many years back Doug Oswell wrote the following letter to Ted Kaczynski asking for proof of an alibi for Zodiac murder and mailing dates. He never got an answer. Also, an attorney for Ted told a writer that they could not provide an alibi for any of these dates - not that they would not, but that they could not.
The first Unabomber crime was in 1978, yet in the early seventies Ted recorded that he had already engaged in "violent rebellion" against society, and that most people would find his crimes "reprehensible". In September 1966 Ted recorded the "breakthrough" moment in his life, when he decided to "REALLY kill everyone I hated".(Emphasis in original). The people he hated included "bigshots", scientists, big businessmen, police - but also "rowdy college students" and couples.
Had Ted supplied an alibi for any of the key Z dates, a class attendance sheet, a witness statement, a letter mailed, a reciept, anything, that would end speculation about him being Z.
This is the letter:
Mr. Kaczynski:
My name is Douglas Oswell. For the past five years I have been researching the similarities between the Unabomber and a world-renowned criminal styled “Zodiac,” who became a pop-culture icon in the late 1960s through a series of sensational murders and correspondences with the press.
At this juncture I have uncovered no evidence that would forge a definite link between the activities of the Unabomber and those of Zodiac. Authorities at both the state and federal level have written off the likelihood of any such connection. Nevertheless it is undeniable (even by the detractors of a connection) that many similarities exist.
I have been advised that it would be unfair to suggest such a connection without offering you the opportunity to defend the reputation of the Unabomber and the philosophy for which he stood. To that end I would like to present you with a list of dates and ask that you provide accounts of your whereabouts for as many of those dates as possible. A valid alibi for even a single date, backed by documentary evidence, would be sufficient to prove conclusively that there is no linkage whatsoever between the sordid crimes of Zodiac and the more principled (albeit terrible) activities of the Unabomber.
Here is the list of dates in question:
Month
Day
Year
December
20
1968
July
4—5
1969
July
31
1969
August
1—8
1969
September
27
1969
October
11—13
1969
November
8—9
1969
December
20
1969
April
20
1970
April
28
1970
June
26
1970
July
24
1970
July
26
1970
October
5
1970
October
27
1970
March
13
1971
March
22
1971
Alibis for the following dates, while helpful, would not be conclusive in discounting a connection:
Month
Day
Year
June
3—6
1963
February
3—6
1964
October
30
1966
November
1
1966
April
30
1967
October
22
1969
March
22
1970
Please bear in mind that any alibi should be backed either by documentary evidence or the word of a reliable individual. In the latter case I would appreciate receiving from you a letter or letters of introduction that will establish my credibility to any such person.
It is only fair to state that I do not consider your brother, David Kaczynski, to be a reliable individual for the purpose of establishing an alibi. In 1990, based on conversations with your brother, a friend of his wrote a heretofore unpublished novel about “a Berkeley professor’s war with technology.” Within that novel the fictional "Berkeley professor" committed murder to promote his worldview, thus anticipating the actual truth long before the Unabomber entered the public imagination.
Whatever the case, I will publish your response in such a way that it may be freely accessed by any interested person.
There is an advantage to you in this. The entire world is aware that you have risked your life to disprove the notion that the Unabomber’s actions were not philosophically motivated, but simply the result of a deviant or warped psychology. I must frankly tell you that the postulated linkage between Zodiac and the Unabomber has grown and persisted in the past five years. Indeed, it shows signs of strengthening in the years to come. I fear that if this theory is not thoroughly refuted, posterity will know the Unabomber not for his principled stand against technology, but for his similarity to a sick and sordid criminal who murdered minor children to assuage his sexual frustrations and shore up a foundering ego. The Zodiac Killer is widely known as “America’s Jack the Ripper.” The Unabomber is fast becoming the “favorite suspect" in a mystery that, because it remains unsolved, will endure for many years to come. You alone can divest him of that distinction.
I thank you for your attention to this matter and encourage you to respond. Enclosed is a small amount of money ($5.00) to defray the cost of postage and stationery.
Sincerely,
Douglas E. Oswell
AK - Doug told me he never got a reply to this letter.
If TK was NOT the Zodiac, it would be so easy for him to blow this whole idea out of the water, by producing a timecard, a class attendance sheet, a phone bill, a reciept, a letter sent from a state other than California, a witness statement.
You can see Doug did include the dates for the 1963 Domingos-Edwards murders in Santa Barbara and the February 1964 Swindle murders in San Diego.
Doug told me another writer got a response from Ted's attorney that NO ALIBI for the above dates could be produced. |
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chrisebeyhoneycutt
Joined: 15 Jan 2010 Posts: 472
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:18 am Post subject: |
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My question is, is there any evidence whatsoever that TK can communicate to the outside world?
There are a lot of reasons why he wouldn't be allowed to. Rumor has it that they have correspondance with over 400 people, but I'm not entirely certain that counts anyone that isn't LE or otherwise government affiliated. _________________ Dr. Chris Honeycutt, PhD
Interests: Criminology, terrorism, religious extremism, sexual predators
[Note: degrees in mathematics, biology and geology; just starting psychology]
Profiling is interesting... Crinoids are BORING! |
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AK

Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 114
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Oh yes, Ted K writes back and forth to his many admirers in the primitivist anarchist and radical environmentalists movements. I have a few of his letters, he can write to anyone he wants. He just decided not to respons to the alibi letter, and his attorney told another writier no alibi's could be provided. |
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chrisebeyhoneycutt
Joined: 15 Jan 2010 Posts: 472
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Great to know! Thank you!
Chris _________________ Dr. Chris Honeycutt, PhD
Interests: Criminology, terrorism, religious extremism, sexual predators
[Note: degrees in mathematics, biology and geology; just starting psychology]
Profiling is interesting... Crinoids are BORING! |
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AK

Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 114
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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NOTE: Special thanks to AweShucks for graphics and image work, Ricardo for research on and images of Santa Barbara suspect "Sandy", Doug Oswell for all of his great research in particular on Kaczynski history/psychology and shared words/symbols, Kite for his excellent work on codes and letters, Morf for research on Aardsma and other cases, Cimm for info on the Percy case, Linda, Drew and others for reseach and information. Thank you all. Having said that, the ideas and theories here are my own, and it should not be considered that those listed agree with all or any of them.
THE BIRTH OF THE ZODIAC?
In the summer of 1966, most likely late August/early September 1966, Ted Kaczynski records a break through moment in his life. He is a genius, yet socially alienated and isolated. He decribes hearing the sound of couples having sex in the apartment next door to his, and he says it fills him with frustration and anger. Out of despair and self described "acute sexual starvation", he records in his journal that instead of killing himself he will "really kill everyone I hate."
The people he says he hates and wants to kill are many, but they include two distinct groups. One group is what he calls "bigshots" or "government officials", and these include "scientists", "big businessmen", "politicians" and "police".
The other group of people he hated and wanted to kill included love making "couples", "rowdy college students" and those college men and women he deems "promiscuous". Look at the government psychiatric report on Kaczynski done after he was arrested for the Unabomber crimes:
In the summer after his fourth year [of graduate school, the summer of 1966], he describes experiencing a period of several weeks where he was sexually excited nearly all the time and was fantasizing himself as a woman and being unable to obtain any sexual relief. He decided to make an effort to have a sex change operation. When he returned to the University of Michigan [most likely in late August or early September 1966] he made an appointment to see a psychiatrist to be examined to determine if the sex change would be good for him. He claimed that by putting on an act he could con the psychiatrist into thinking him suitable for a feminine role even though his motive was exclusively erotic. As he was sitting in the waiting room, he turned completely against the idea of the operation and thus, when he saw the doctor, instead claimed he was depressed about the possibility of being drafted. He describes the following:
"As I walked away from the building afterwards, I felt disgusted about what my uncontrolled sexual cravings had almost led me to do and I felt humiliated, and I violently hated the psychiatrist. Just then there came a major turning point in my life. Like a Phoenix, I burst from the ashes of my despair to a glorious new hope. I thought I wanted to kill that psychiatrist because the future looked utterly empty to me. I felt I wouldn't care if I died. And so I said to myself why not really kill the psychiatrist and anyone else whom I hate. What is important is not the words that ran through my mind but the way I felt about them. What was entirely new was the fact that I really felt I could kill someone. My very hopelessness had liberated me because I no longer cared about death. I no longer cared about consequences and I said to myself that I really could break out of my rut in life an do things that were daring, irresponsible or criminal." [Psych Report] {Emphasis added}
That happened sometime in the summer of 1966, most likely in late August/early September 1966. Probably mere days later, on or around September 3, 1966, bombs go off at the suburban Chicago house of Elmwood Park Mayor Elmer Conti and at a glass company on Paulina St. in Chicago. Within weeks there is another attack on a home of an Illinois politician Republican Senate nominee and Bell & Howell CEO Charles Percy, this one far more brutal and lethal, and his daughter Valerie Percy is murdered on September 18, 1966. One week later Monsanto chemical engineer Jerry Bricca, his wife Linda and daughter Debbie in suburban Cincinnati are bound and killed on or around September 25 to 27, 1966. On October 30, 1966, when evidence shows Ted Kaczynski is in California, the first probable Zodiac crime, the murder of college student Cheri Jo Bates occurs.
His first confirmed Unabomber crime was in 1978, when he was 36 years old. Yet we know from research that the most active and violent period for the majority of serial killers is from their late teens to late twenties. And we see that Kaczynski reports the motivation, desire and ability to kill at least as early as the summer of 1966.
In 1966 he was a sexually frustrated and confused young man who resolved to kill those he hated, which included "bigshots" but also college students and young women. He later recorded a fantasy of mutiliating a woman's face with a knife. He also wanted to - and did - kill "bigshots" like "big businessmen" and "politicians", and Bell & Howell CEO and soon to be Senator Charles Percy would represent those things to him, as well being a man associated with high technology through his company. And Mr. Bricca was a scientist working for a major corporation. The fathers of Valerie Percy, Linda Bricca and Cheri Jo Bates all worked for companies or facilities involved in technology that had government defense contracts.
In September 1966, of course, Ted was officially enrolled at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, Michigan. But his TA duties and course work were done, and his thesis almost finished. There was nothing to require him to be physically present at the campus. We know that sometime in the later Fall and/or Winter of 1966 evidence shows he went to California for job interviews at the University of California, Berkeley. Where Percy was killed in Kenilworth, Illinois is ony 30 mintues from the Kaczynski family home in Evergreen Park, Illinois. Ann Arbor is only a three to four hour trip by car or train to Chicago, and a four hour trip by car to Cincinnati, Ohio.
COULD KACZYNSKI KILL UP CLOSE AND PERSONAL WITH A KNIFE, BLUNT OBJECT OR GUN?
One of the main objections some people will make to the evidence about Kaczynski being the killer of Valerie Percy, the Zodiac or the EAR/ONS - and I admit it is at first glance a reasonable objection - is that Ted was mainly known to kill with bombs, not up close and personal with a gun, blunt object or knife.
If at some point you talk to an FBI Agent, criminal psychologist or serial killer profiler, they will no doubt tell you that the majority of "distance killers", those who kill by bomb or poison, do not typically also commit "up close and personal" crimes with a gun, knife or blunt object.
First, even if studies of known cases show that majority did not also do personal crimes, there is a minority who did. Kaczynski had a unique pathology - a specific hatred of technology, business leaders and politicians (which shows up in his Unabomber crimes from 1978 to 1996 and also may have played in a role in the selection of the Percy and Bricca homes as a target), but also the general rage expressed in 1966, in which he wanted to kill "college students" and women. So Kaczynski may well be in the minority of distance killers who also kill up close and personal.
Second, there is evidence Kaczynski actually thought about and even did kill up close and personal.
The FBI states he actually did shoot and wound a miner with a rifle. In his journal that recorded in detail all of his bombing crimes, he also wrote of unspecified other crimes whose evidence he had destroyed and accounts of had burned or buried, because their revelation (in light of his growing reputation as a political terrorist and anti-technology activist) could prove "dangerous, embarassing or just very bad public relations." Certainly the brutal murder of a young college girl like Valerie Percy or the lovers lane killings of young couples by the Zodiac would not be something he would want publicly known, when some on the fringes of the radical environmental and anarchist movements now touted him as a hero of sorts.
He recorded a desire to kill people by "bomb or other means". He wrote fantasies about mutilating a women's face with a knife and raping a woman in front of her husband. He spent a year and made a one shot .22 pistol from wood and junk parts that he wrote he intended to use as a "homicide weapon". As a one shot untraceable weapon, it would best be used in situations were the victim was immobile, such as being bound or asleep.
He created a shoe device to leave false sole prints of sizes other than his own. That would not help for the known Unabomber crimes, but would for up close and personal crimes. The FBI records he had black and green canvas and denim HOODS and MASKS in his cabin - again, only suitable for personal crimes, and both the Zodiac and the EAR/ONS wore hoods and masks. He was a known peeper on love making couples, armed burglar, house trasher and arsonist.
One item I find interesting was that in reading about the EAR/ONS case it was mentioned that his shoe size was thought to be in the 9 to 9 1/2 area, and that matches Kaczynski. But I also read about some smaller shoe prints - an 8 or 8 1/2 - found at one or more scenes. If true that is interesting in light of something found in the Kaczynski cabin. He created a shoe with a smaller size sole attached to the bottom.
Apparently it was invented as a rather clever way to fool police about his own size 9 to 10 shoes, by putting a smaller shoe underneath. See it below.
The strange thing is he did most of his KNOWN crimes by mail, or a few by placing bombs in parking lots or on cement. So why did he create this shoe device? He also had maps of the LA area, yet he was never KNOWN to have done a crime there. Both the shoe device and the LA maps are generally inconsistent or not relevant to his Unabomber crimes, but may match the Zodiac and EAR/ONS crimes. |
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AK

Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 114
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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COLLEGE GIRL MURDERS 1966 - 1969: CASES THAT MAY BE RELATED - PERCY, BATES, SHEPARD,AARDSMA[/b]
Sharon Bubes, Evanston, IL - Attacked in her bedroom with a hammer, 6/30/66
Valerie Percy, Kenilworth, IL - Murdered in her bedroom by hammer like object and knife, 9/18/66
Bricca Family, Cincinnati, OH - Found bound and murdered in bedrooms by knife, 9/27/66
Cheri Jo Bates, Riverside, CA - Murdered at campus library by knife, 10/30/66
Confession letter in Cheri Jo Bates murder, Riverside, CA - mailed on 11/28/66
Cecelia Shepard, Lake Berryessa, CA - Bound and murdered by knife, 9/27/69
Betsy Aardsma, State College, PA - Murdered in campus library by knife, 11/28/69
Joan Webster, Boston, MA - Harvard grad student abducted and murdered, 11/28/81
THE VICTIMS
We know that it is most likely around late August/early September of 1966 when Kaczynski states he was "born again" and decided to "really kill everyone I hate." He states he was suffering from "acute sexual starvation" and that some of the people he wants to kill are love making couples, "college students" and young men and women. Looking at these cases we see possible links between them.
Note also that the Zodiac Killer is a prime suspect in the death of Ms. Bates, and that the interest in Kaczynski as a suspect for the Zodiac has been renewed and is ongoing. Kaczynski was in the SF Bay area at the time of the Zodiac murders, and like the Zodiac, wrote to newspapers demanding his words on the front page and was an expert in codes and bombs.
The Zodiac was known to do mailings and crimes on the anniversary dates of other crimes. On the three year anniversary of the discovery of the Bricca murders, September 27, 1969, the Zodiac attacked a couple at Lake Berryessa, CA, and bound them with rope before stabbing them. The woman, Cecelia Shepard, was stabbed 10 times and was killed. (Note: On or around September 26/27 1982, the 16th anniversary of the Bricca slaying and the 13th anniversary of the Zodiac murder of Shepard, someone put Cyanide tainted Tylenol on store shelves in the Chicago area. All the tampering sites were within a 20 minute radius of the Kaczynski family home in Lombard, Illinois).
Looking at the pictures of Valerie Percy, Cheri Jo Bates and Betsy Aardsma, there are clear similarities (and I think Linda Bricca and Cecelia Shepard would fit in here as well). All the girls are beautiful, with fresh faces and mid length hair. If perhaps not looking quite like sisters, they certainly look like they could be cousins, all from the same family.
All these women were in the same age range and all were college students. All were intelligent, charming, independent and assertive. All were "good girls" to use the language of the times. All lead clean lives with no clear suspects in their murders.
Percy and Aardsma were both graduate students. Percy had graduated from Cornell and was to start graduate school at John Hopkins; Aardsma had graduated from the University of Michigan and had just started grad school at Penn State.
It seems Ted Kaczynski had either actually or potentially crossed paths with each of these women, had a tie to the area they were in and was actually in each of the three different states they were in when they were killed.
* Percy's Kenilworth home was within 30 minutes of where Kaczynski's family home in Evergreen Park was located, and four hours from Ann Arbor, Michigan.
* Before enrolling at the University of Michigan, Aardsma visited and spent extensive time in Ann Arbor in 1966-1967, Ted's last year there, they both shared an interest Native American Indian cultures and in politics, Aardsma was researching a mathematician when killed and most importantly a witness has placed Ted at the murder scene, in the Penn State library the day before the murder.
* Bates was killed in Riverside, California during the time that evidence shows Ted went out there in the late Fall/early Winter of 1966 to interview with the University of California, Berkeley, which also has campuses in LA and Riverside.
Percy was stabbed multiple times and bludgeoned in the head; Bates was stabbed multiple times and kicked in the head; Aardsma was killed by a single brutal knife thrust to the heart.
MO MATCHES AND OTHER SIMILARITIES IN THE MURDERS
In particular, there are very notable similarities between the murder of Ms. Bates in California on October 30, 1966 (when evidence shows Kaczynski was in that state), and the murder of Ms. Aardsma on November 28, 1969 at the Penn State library (when evidence shows Kaczynski was there, at that library). In some instances there are also similarities to the Percy murder. University of Michigan graduate Betsy Aardsma, attending Penn State graduate school, was brutally murdered. Like the murder of Ms. Bates:
* The murder took place within one day of a major Fall Holiday (Bates Halloween, Aardsma Thanksgiving). (Percy near the Autumnal Equinox and Harvest Moon, Bricca and Shepard on the Norse Harvest Festival).
* The murder took place at or in a campus library (Bates at the library, Aardsma actually in the library).
* The weapon was a short knife, approximately 1 inch wide and 3 1/2 to 4 inches long. (I don't know the length of knife used on Percy but a bayonet was found in the lake nearby, Bricca was killed by a 6 1/2 inch knife, perhaps a bayonet, and Shepard may have also been killed with a bayonet or bayonet sized weapon).
* The attack was brutal and the victims led clean lives with no obvious suspects. (Also true of Percy, Bricca and Shepard).
* In both cases taunting letters were sent after the crime. (A threat letter was sent to Charles Percy in May 1966, Zodiac letter sent after Shepard murder).
* A CRYPTIC MORBID POEM MENTIONING DEATH WAS ETCHED ONTO A WOOD DESK and found at the Riverside college, and talked about killing a girl in a red dress, and Aardsma was wearing a red dress when killed. The Riverside poem had the initials "RH". REVEALED FOR THE FIRST TIME HERE, THERE WAS ALSO A CRYPTIC MORBID SAYING MENTIONING DEATH ETCHED INTO A WOOD CHAIR ARM and found at Penn State and associated by police to be probably linked to the murder of Aardsma. The Aardsma saying had the initials "RSK". (Interestingly, to throw police off track, Kaczynski later put a message in a bomb signed "RV")
After the Zodiac murder of cab driver Paul Stine in October 1969, and the release of the Zodiac composite sketch in early November 1969, the SF area would have been very hot for the Zodiac. It would be prudent for him to leave, and in fact, Ted's brother David says Ted did leave California at that time and came home to Illinois. That puts him in the eastern half of the US and a days drive from PA when Aardsma is killed. Ted's father was from PA. Prior to the murder of Aardsma, Zodiac claimed 7 victims - but in his Christmas letter to Melvin Belli he says he may take a ninth and tenth victim. Who was number 8? Could it have been Aardsma?
Most importantly, a witness picked out a picture of Ted Kaczynski as being present in the Penn State library the day before Aardsma was killed, acting strangely and perhaps wearing a wig. |
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AK

Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 114
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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The statement etched onto a wood chair arm at Penn State and thought by police to perhaps be linked to the murder of Betsy Aardsma said the following:
HERE SAT DEATH IN THE GUISE OF A MAN RSK
Or given what I presume is the narrow width of a wood chair arm it may have appeared like this:
HERE SAT
DEATH IN
THE GUISE
OF A MAN
RSK
Does anyone have any thoughts on how this may relate to the Aardsma case, the Bates murder, Zodiac, Kaczynski, the Aardsma suspect with the actual initials "RH" (Richard Haefner) or any other Zodiac or Aardsma suspects?
Has anyone heard this phrase before?
Does "RSK" mean anything to anyone?
Is the whole phrase an anagram? A code? Or just a prank, a red herring? |
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AK

Joined: 09 Apr 2009 Posts: 114
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Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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The information on the message and RSK comes from police investigating the murder of Aardsma.
I find it fascinating and very significant. I may give more weight to it then the police do. And it could have no connection to the case.
What do we have?
We have Cheri Jo Bates, murdered by a short knife outside a college library within a day of a major Fall holiday, and a morbid poem mentioning the death of a girl in a red dress is written/etched onto a wood desk attached to a chair.
Three years after the confession letter is mailed in that case, we have Betsy Aardsma wearing a red dress and murdered by a short knife inside a college library with a day of a major Fall holiday, and a morbid statement mentioning death written/etched onto a wood arm of a chair.
This to me is compelling evidence that these cases may well be linked.
Also the writings are signed
RH
and
RSK
Both start with the letter "R". Coincidence? All four letters R, H, S and K are in the name:
THEODORE JOHN KACZYNSKI.
R, K and S occur at the 7th, 13th and 19th positions in that name. Intervals of 6, and all are prime numbers. Once again, just a coincidence?
____________________________________________
Thanks to Kite for this idea: What if we reduce this to mathematics?
Express it as R(H) and R(S - K).
S is the 19th letter in the alphabet and K is the 11th letter. So S - K translates as 19 - 11. 19 -11 = 8.
What is the 8th letter in the alphabet? H.
So R(H) = R (S-K) . |
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