JonBenet Ramsey

[serialbuster]

I think just plain old jealosy has a lot to do with why people want to
blame the Ramseys. It might even factor in to the motive for the
crime in the long run.

Did anyone notice the comments below the story? I was thinking
about posting the link to my own favorite "mean-spirited" web site
until I saw that, but it is obviously useless. One idiot even brought
up a theory about the parents "pimping her out" as reason to discard
this new dna finding. Another still thinks that having money helped
to "buy silence" for the Ramsey's - thank goodness this person doesn't
have that kind of money, its obvious what he would be doing with it.
He might even attempt to "buy" a conviction against the Ramsey's.
LOL.

No. These people aren't going to "choke on it" until the Judgement of
God proves them evil-spirited, jealous-hearted liars and tosses them
into the lake of fire. Until then, the rest of us continue "fighting" for
their right to HAVE AN OPINION, even as we struggle to defend our own.


buster

[Rainsong]

The good thing about participating in those types of forums is the education you receive in human behavior.

Not that I'd want to go through that again...
_________________
Rainsong

There are people who believe their path is the only path. If you've found a path of spirit that takes you where you need to go, stay on it.

We'll all meet at the top of the mountain.

[Rainsong]

[serialbuster]

Yes, Rainsong, I figured that. There are actually a few good people at
the "other" website I belong to (definitely NOT webslueths), but it's
amazing how the vicious ones are able to keep them in check. I find
myself constantly battling just for the right to have my own opinion,
much less to be able to state that opinion.

Who ARE those people who fight so viciously to exterminate all but their
own "popular" opinion. Surely they cant be Americans. Americans are
supposed to be a "free" people. They certainly aren't Canadians. We
have several Canadians on that forum and they are the most decent
ones there. If they were Muslims they wouldn't despise Obama or his
followers the way they do. So who are they then?

Sometimes I think they are the same ones, going around to all the
different web-sites to establish and maintain control by agreeing with
each other and "ganging up" on anyone who disagrees. Some kind of
self-righteous "web-site vigilantes" group, lol. Seriously, I suspect the
group from the other web-site I belong to are involved in criminal
behavior of some sort, probably pedophelia, child pornography, or both,
judging by their immature behavior and their adeptness for way-laying
any focused discussions about important cases or issues with such silly
nonsense as remarks to each other about their dogs, family vacations,
backyard barbeques, etc. They once made over 100 one- and two-line
posts in a row, each containing the word "nightie-night". Is that the sort
of nonsense they pull at webslueths?


buster

[Rainsong]

That and so much more.
_________________
Rainsong

There are people who believe their path is the only path. If you've found a path of spirit that takes you where you need to go, stay on it.

We'll all meet at the top of the mountain.

[ThinkTank]

It is terrible what I see people still posting about the Ramsey's. The know one little tidbit about the case and are ready to hang them. I dont know how people can be so cruel. I really cant get that.
_________________
Not all heros wear capes.... But most wear underwear! Exception... Jumpin Jack Flash doesnt wear undies but he is a hero anyway!

[serialbuster]

"...so cruel..."

that is the clencher

How could NORMAL people be "so cruel"? I'm sure at times I have been
thoughtless, inconsiderate, maybe even all-out rude, but not to the
degree of standing firm on my own ignorance just for the sake of cruelty.
Even in the beginning when I thought it looked bad for the parents I
couldn't have gone as far as to persecute them without a trial, without
even considering the facts. They had just lost their daughter for heaven's
sakes. What if I jumped to conclusions and later turned out to be wrong?

That's what baffles me the most. It seems to me like a "normal" person
would consider their own conscience, if nothing else. These people have
no conscience. IT AINT NORMAL. And if it aint normal, what is it?


buster

[Captain]

A journalist just sent me an e-mail that was written to a Boulder newspaper that was a long hate diatribe accusing everyone, including FBI, of conspiring to cover up for the Ramseys killing JonBenet. It was long and cabin-in-the-woods bomber-quality fare. The IP was from Iowa. Maybe someone needs to be checking his handwriting, because he's mighty upset about the DNA find. He claimed to have been involved at some point. Of course, the world is full of wingnuts...
_________________
"I care not for a man's religion whose dog and cat are not the better for it."

--Abraham Lincoln

[JDprofileMe]

Mr. Douglas was right on this one all along just as I knew he would be. A million kudos to you Mr. Douglas-you rock! And to all of the naysayers who attempted to chew you up over your assessment of the crime scene
pi$$ off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rumaj]

DNA points JonBenet case in new direction
DA says tests show unidentified man murdered child
By Lisa Ryckman, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)
Thursday, July 10, 2008

Twelve years after JonBenet Ramsey's murder, science took a leap that provided new hope of finding her killer and led authorities to exonerate her family.

On Wednesday, Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy announced that a new method of collecting and analyzing DNA generated powerful forensic evidence that an unidentified man murdered 6- year-old JonBenet in her home on Christmas night 1996.

Lacy also gave JonBenet's father, John Ramsey, a written apology, expressing deep regret for contributing in any way to the public perception that someone in the Ramsey family had committed the crime.

"No innocent person should have to endure such an extensive trial in the court of public opinion, especially when public officials have not had sufficient evidence to initiate a trial in a court of law," Lacy's letter said.

John Ramsey, a software entrepreneur who now lives in Michigan, said Wednesday he is hopeful the killer will be found based on the DNA evidence.

"I think the people that are in charge of the investigation are focused on that, and that gives me a lot of comfort," he told 9News. He added: "Certainly we are grateful that they acknowledged that we, based on that, certainly could not have been involved."

Ramsey's attorney, Hal Haddon, said his client was "just quiet for a while," after Lacy handed him the apology.

"His view is that aside from the peace of mind it gives his family, the most important part of this whole process is that now there's conclusive evidence in the DNA database, and as they expand the number of people put in it, they'll get a hit. That's what drives him."

John Ramsey, and his wife, Patsy, were considered prime suspects after JonBenet's body was found in the basement of their Boulder home on Dec. 26, 1996.

Target of jokes

The family became the butt of late-night television jokes, screaming headlines and talk show chatter. Patsy Ramsey, who died of ovarian cancer in 2006 at age 49, became a particular target of media and Internet speculation and suspicion that created an "ongoing living hell for the Ramsey family and their friends," Lacy said.

The couple maintained their innocence, and a 1999 grand jury returned no indictments after a 13- month investigation. Then-District Attorney Alex Hunter and police continued to say that the Ramseys remained under an "umbrella of suspicion."

"The world loved crucifying Patsy and John," said Patsy's sister, Pam Paugh. "Patsy didn't get to hear anyone apologize to her, and there were so many that were cruel. But she and John knew in their hearts what the truth was."

The latest evidence came from "touch DNA" extracted from skin cells shed when the unknown man touched the waist band of JonBenet's long johns. The Bode Technology Group, a forensic lab in Virginia, found that the "touch DNA" matched genetic material recovered in blood found in the child's underpants early in the investigation.

Earlier, there was speculation that the DNA on JonBenet's underwear could have been left by a garment worker, a theory discredited by the discovery of the same DNA left on her long johns.

"Now you've got in three more places exactly the same DNA on the clothing that demonstrate exactly what happened: her leggings and panties were pulled down, then pulled back up after she was violated," Haddon said. "It's enormously compelling evidence."

Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner, whose department has been widely criticized for the way it handled the case, said that DNA samples from 200 people have been compared with the mystery DNA without a match. Investigators hope to find a match in a growing national database with more than 5 million offenders' DNA profiles.

"We are hopeful that this new development will lead to the identification and successful prosecution of this child's killer," Beckner said in a statement.

Skepticism will continue

In her letter, Lacy said authorities will need more than a DNA match to solve the crime. But, she stressed the significance of the latest development.

"DNA is very often the most reliable forensic evidence we can hope to find, and we rely on it often to bring to justice those who have committed crimes," she wrote.

Lacy and Haddon acknowledged that despite the latest evidence, there will continue to be skeptics who insist that the family is involved.

"They can say all those things, but that doesn't address the scientific and conclusive evidence that exists," Haddon said. "Those people are just justifying their own slander and opportunism. They're wrong, they're losers, and to the extent they continue to try to justify what they've done, that demonstrates how little conscience they have."

Exonerated in civil suit

Lacy wasn't the first to officially exonerate the Ramseys. In 2003, U.S. District Court Judge Julie Carnes dismissed a civil lawsuit against the couple, saying there was no evidence they killed their daughter but ample evidence pointing to an intruder.

"My first thought was obviously I wish Patsy Ramsey was here with us to be able to at least share vindication of her family," said L. Lin Wood, an Atlanta attorney who handled civil cases for the Ramseys. "There are many people in this country, if not around the world, that also owe John and Patsy Ramsey and Burke Ramsey an apology."

Paugh said that the faith her sister and brother-in-law shared made it possible for them to continue their lives after JonBenet's death.

"Patsy died knowing she absolutely did nothing to her child but give her life and give her love," she said. "I'm glad the world now knows what we always knew. It's just 12 years too late."


Related Links

* ARCHIVE: Exclusive interview with Ramseys, parts 1 and 2
* DOCUMENT: Letter to John Ramsey from DA Mary Lacy
* SPECIAL REPORT: JonBenet Ramsey case
* SLIDE SHOW: DNA evidence clears Ramseys
* STATEMENT: From Boulder DA Mary Lacy
* VIDEO: Former neighbors talk about the decision

Related Stories

* Boulder prosecutor supported intruder theory early in term
* Worldwide interest in JonBenet case
* IN HER OWN WORDS: Patsy Ramsey 'smiling' after apology, sister says
* LEGAL OPINION: Now add DNA to evidence of an intruder
* Best chance of catching killer: another attack
* New to U.S., 'touch DNA' also exonerated Masters
* Expert on pedophiles: 'He's going to strike again'

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/jul/10/dna-points-jonbenet-case-in-new-direction/
_________________
"Sell Crazy Someplace Else. We're all stocked up here."

Line from the movie As Good As It Gets

[The Real Suspect Zero]

Good day, rumaj.

Thank you for posting the recent news concerning the JonBenet Ramsey murder case.
This is a case I have spent considerable time and effort in reviewing.
I used to live in Boulder and therefore it became a personal endeavor.

But I do not believe that the "touch dna evidence", i.e., the skin cells that were recently analyzed removes ALL doubt as to the possibility of the Ramsey's having involvement in the murder of their child.

Certainly this newest find can and will alter many people's perceptions about their possible involvement

But simply because the skin cells were discovered on an outer garment and on the panties themself does not mean that someone, some known or unknown intruder, had committed this crime.
It simply means that someone's dna was found on both items.

For district attorney Mary Lacy to state that the dna tests show an unidentified man murdered this child can not be taken literally as there is no indisputable proof of that statement, that this cellular residue was left by the killer.

This dna could have been deposited through various means other than by her killer.
And the panties that JonBenet was found wearing were never positively identified as belonging to anyone in the family and therefore may have been obtained through any number of ways.
This oversized pair of underwear (size 12/14) may have been intentionally put on the child to throw-off the investigation.
JonBenet wore a size 4/6. (15 pair were found in panty drawer located in the bathroom as observed by DA Michael Kane according to transcripts of videotaped interview in August 2000)
No one has yet to explain this other than they believe this "intruder" carried them along with him for that specific purpose.

The psychological behaviours/actions that are present in this case do not correspond with a natural chain of events that one would expect to accompany the physical evidence.
Therefore it is and has always been my belief that this crime shares both elements of accidental death and staging of the crime scene in order to conceal the true cause.


Why leave a ransom note behind as evidence with the body when there was no kidnapping? Why weren't the Ramsey's fingerprints on the note, since they handled it? Why was someone "practicing" writing ransom notes? Why was Mrs. Ramsey wearing the same clothes as the previous night, as if she was up doing something all night? Why had Patsy Ramsey given two different and conflicting accounts as to how she found the ransom note-Patsy Ramsey told Det. Arndt she had gone downstairs at 5:45 a.m. to make coffee. She went down a back spiral stairway, as she normally did, and at the bottom of the steps she found three pages of paper laid across a stair step, Why were there no "intruder" tracks in the snow?, Why did Patsy Ramsey immediately contact several close friends (5 of them) and ask them to come over when the note specifically forbed them to call anyone or her daughter would be beheaded, thus jeopardizing her daughter's life?, The duct tape placed over JonBenet's mouth AFTER her death, There was a piece of cord loosely tied around JonBenet's right wrist, but there was no indication her wrists had ever actually been bound. This caused some investigators to theorize the cord was placed on her wrist after death. etc..etc..etc..
I can think of only one scenario that would fit all of these bizarre facts.


Chris
_________________
It's best you don't know what's going to happen next.

[rumaj]

Aw heck TRSZ, I've fallen asleep in my clothes, and yes even put on the same clothes I've worn the day before, if for a reason, like working, painting, going out, whatever the occasion.

And you should know that LE NEVER releases all details of every case. They always hold back things only the killer would know.

So while we may know of PUBLICLY released details, the killer and investigators knows the rest.


Don't be a doubting Thomas.

Geesh!

Regards,
Rhonda
_________________
"Sell Crazy Someplace Else. We're all stocked up here."

Line from the movie As Good As It Gets

[Rainsong]

[The Real Suspect Zero]

Hahhaha, I'll try not to be, rumaj.

But... This is one case that I do not agree with Mr. Douglas' assessment as well.

Matter of fact, it's the ONLY case where I stand in opposition with his analysis.

I recall he noted; “Despite absolutely no evidence for any of these suppositions, despite a feeding frenzy of character investigation...facts become almost irrelevant to certain ’analysts.’”
I know alot about this man, afterall , he's my mentor.

This is one case where I agree with the analysis performed on the ransom note by professor Donald Foster where he suggests the note was written by Patsy Ramsey.
Although professor Foster is not exactly a "linguistics" expert per se', he is none-the-less highly competent in the area of literary analysis.

Chris
_________________
It's best you don't know what's going to happen next.

[The Real Suspect Zero]

Good day, Rainsong.

I would have to agree completely with your last statement;
"In any other case on the planet, finding male DNA in the underwear and outer garments of a sexual assault/homicide victim would be indicative of the perpetrator."
But this case is not a simple case of rape, sexual assault or simple homicide where a motive can be readily established either, it's much too complex and it is this complexity that leaves room for various interpretations.
None of which are provable beyond a reasonable doubt.

Chris
ps
And to add that there was no definitive proof that this victim had been sexually assaulted.
At least no definitive proof of someone penetrating her with his penis.
Her hyman was found intact, yet was somewhat irregular, a congenital defect as some are where there is a small opening about the perimeter.
_________________
It's best you don't know what's going to happen next.