JonBenet Ramsey

ThinkTank · Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 3742

Rain,

There you go again. Such a creative effort to effect someones thought process. Point well made.

Think
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nofoolin · Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 210

“I sometimes wonder what the police and the public would have thought if Patsy had written:

Dear Friends and Family,

It's been another hectic year in the Ramsey household. Melinda has finally graduated from school and is now a self-supporting adult as is John Andrew. Thank GOD those two are no longer a drain on John's wallet!

Burke is a busy fourth grader, and while doing very well in academic life, he is running me ragged toting his butt to football and basketball practice! My theme song should be "On the Road Again!"

JonBenet is a real firecracker! Her attendance and advancement in "real school" is only marred by her continued bed-wetting! I frequently praise the Lord that one of the criteria at the pageants isn't body fragrance!

John is always on the go, traveling hither and yon--leaving me alone to handle both children and this gi-normous house by myself! On top of all my time on the road, I also volunteer at school! What little time I have to myself I spend pondering a possible recurrence of my cancer.

In the meantime, we will be spending my actual birthday on Disney's Big Red Boat. I hope none of us gets sea sick!

The Ramsey Family”

I see what you mean, a letter Christmas letter should sound up beat , positive, hopeful!

But what if the person really wasn’t feeling all those things? Then wouldn’t the letter be a fraud?

This letter you wrote makes me think.

This makes me now wonder if the real 1996 Christmas letter to family and “friends” , was the one actually written on Christmas. The one filled with death and no hope.
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JMO

ThinkTank · Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 3742

SAY WHAT??? I lost the point you were trying to make. What "death and no hope" letter are you referring to? Are you referring to the ransom letter? Did I miss something or what?
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Not all heros wear capes.... But most wear underwear! Exception... Jumpin Jack Flash doesnt wear undies but he is a hero anyway!

black_magic_7 · Joined: 24 Jan 2005 Posts: 27 Location: Illinois

A few months ago, Court TV broadcasted a special on the JonBenet case, and it answered a couple of important questions that I had about the murder: (1)Had there been similar child murders/attacks in the Ramsey neighborhood? (2)Had there been really viable DNA evidence from JonBenet's body?
The answers to both questions were YES! Another child had been attacked/molested in a house three blocks away, a few weeks before JonBenet's murder, and I believe the program said there had been another child murdered in the same time frame, close to the geographical area.
The program did actually name the suspect in those other child attacks, a convicted pedophile(surprise surprise), sorry! can't recall the name off the top of my head! who had left town immediately after the second child's murder, but who had been in town when JonBenet was killed. The whole crux of the matter is to find this guy, get his DNA sample, and compare it to all of the crimes, including JonBenet's murder.
Unfortunately, until the local authorities are willing to go outside the box,
and publicly announce they made a mistake about the Ramsey's involvement in their daughter's murder, the case will never be closed and a child killer will be still be on the loose.
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Voice of Reason · Joined: 01 May 2005 Posts: 8

Rainsong · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 1363

Voice of Reason · Joined: 01 May 2005 Posts: 8

It seems like the documentary was trying to prove the point that there were many others in Boulder that should have been looked into and never were. To that effect, I think it was successful. I think Kenady just got tangled up in that mess, but is probably unrelated to the JBR case.

Unfortunately for Kenady, Helgoth, and Gigax, the documentary chose a bad example to make their point. It seems they were too concerned with having a "ground-breaking" story, that they overlooked the knowledge and resources of the online sleuthers.

ThinkTank · Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 3742

Rainsong,

I am wondering if you have dismissed Helgoth as an accomplice. I know I am not nearly up to speed on this case. I know you are steps ahead and I am just getting to the two person theory and that Helgoth doesn't match the DNA. Is it still possible that he is the second person. If you don't believe so can you explain why? Secondly, do you believe his death is the suicide or do you question that? Could you also give me your reasoning for that thought? I know the shoes size is not a match. Last of all do you think that the Helgoth information was staged?

Thanks,
Think
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Not all heros wear capes.... But most wear underwear! Exception... Jumpin Jack Flash doesnt wear undies but he is a hero anyway!

Liam1306 · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 685 Location: Texas

Watch the movie Ransom.

Identify with the leadership offender's profession and the follower offenders.

Then try to premeditate a similar crime and do it better.

Cut down on the number of people involved.

Two people don't think things thru; one is the leader and the other is just a follower.

With three people, you have a leader, a thinker and a follower. It isn't one against the other. It is important to build a consensus; for everyone to be able to express their perspective on each and every aspect of the proposed crime.

The car drives up, drops off two people, two people enter (with a key), one is the lookout and the other is the "pretext" kidnapping actor.

It is extremely difficult to ascertain the true motive of a group when each individual member retains their own personality based motives.

While each member will comply - to a greater, or lesser extent - with the groups' goal, each personality must exploit the group to the same degree that they exploit the victim, her family, law enforcement, the community and the media.

Accept the crime for what it was and remains; a too premeditated example of a small (physically, or cognitvely) man's revenge motivated exploitation.

Helgoth fits one aspect of the profile I provided to the BPD and BCDA 8 days after the offense; someone has to die post-offense.

rumaj · Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject:

Longtime Ramsey investigator to return

By Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News
March 6, 2006

The JonBenet Ramsey investigation will be in new hands later this month -- but those hands are connected to a familiar face.

Boulder District Attorney's chief investigator Jim Kolar is leaving his post March 24, to go back to the southwestern Colorado resort town of Telluride. He will assume the job of chief marshal, a position he held previously from 1993 to 2004.

Kolar will be replaced in Boulder by former Boulder District Attorney's investigator Tom Bennett, whose duties will include pursuing all leads into the unsolved Christmas night 1996 slaying of 6-year-old JonBenet.

Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy on Monday confirmed Kolar's imminent departure.

"They made him an offer he couldn't refuse," Lacy said, referring to Kolar's return to Telluride. "But it was quite a save (because) Tom Bennett is coming back. We're very pleased about that."

More at:
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4519110,00.html
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Liam1306 · Joined: 27 Sep 2004 Posts: 685 Location: Texas

The weakest link - the only real danger leading to the offender(s)' discovery in this crime - had to die.

H was out of control in almost every aspect of his meager and miserable life. According to some reports - the veracity of which has yet to be established - his own pre-offense communications identified a personal involvement in some nefarious activity retaining a large financial motive.

For $118,000 to be large - the solicited offenders would either have to be young and immature, or a little older (and still immature) with nothing to show for the hardships in their life so far and not much else to lose.

Could a soliciting offender, exploiting the intimate pre-offense personal, familial and residential/business knowledge and information of the Ramsey family garnered over a period of time - and motivated by revenge - utilize his previous training, experience and leadership skills to solicit a small group of (3) people into a "pretext" ransom kidnapping in which the victim is never really kidnapped?

The only thing the offenders do is alter the victim's location within the home, lock the door and hope that the initial search by patrol officers doesn't entail kicking in a locked door inside the home of the wealthy parents whom are sitting at the top of the stairs.

If the parents pay the ransom and the offenders' reveal the living victim's location within the home, the family, law enforcement and the media all nash their teeth and tear at each other - the exact same way they did with the way it turned out.

And then the soliciting offender's life - and personal safety - is forever dependent upon these "mut" solicited offenders not running off their mouth, or spending the ransom like drunken sailors.

Everything was "too premeditated."
Everything that is except for the ransom delivery.

I don't carer how smart an offender is, there is simply no way to escape detection, or apprehension during a ransom delivery.

This is critical to understanding that the prime motive for JBR's death was revenge.

The soliciting offender's motive was satisfied, the pretext ransom money was to be divided by the solicited offenders.

The solicited offenders did their jobs within the home.

The soliciting offender entered after their departure - set them all up for the failure - and left.

Get over the offender staged and imposed conflict of interest; the soliciting offender never left; he is still there.

nofoolin · Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 210

Ok, let me see if I have this scenario you present correct.

There are three stooges who are hired by someone to go to the Ramsey home (with a key ) and move their daughter from her bedroom to that windowless basement room. ( One will stay in the car and only two will enter the home) Once they move her, they are to lock that door and then leave.

They are told by the person who hired them that the child will not be harmed, and that once the ransom is paid, the parents will be notified that the child is actually downstairs in the basement, in the windowless room.

But, that is not really the case, because the person that hired them to move the child has really planned to go in and kill the child right after they leave. His motive is revenge, and he has no plans to collect any ransom. The killer believes the three stooges will not tell anyone of their involvement after they hear that the child has been found dead, that they will keep quiet to protect themselves. But the killer also believes that the weakest link might cave in and so would also need to be killed.

“The only thing the offenders do is alter the victim's location within the home, lock the door and hope that the initial search by patrol officers doesn't entail kicking in a locked door inside the home of the wealthy parents whom are sitting at the top of the stairs.” (Liam)

Well, we are told that the police did not find the body themselves that day, but without knowing that that would happen, why would anyone sit around and expect that?

First of all, I would expect the police to search the entire house . If not for the child because of the ransom note, at least to make sure that the house was safe, since someone had entered it and wrote in the note that they were monitoring the Ramsey’s every move.

If the 3 did believe this was a possibility, that the live child they left downstairs would not be found before a ransom was paid, how did they think she would keep quiet? If they initially stun gunned her to knock her out, she would wake at some point. They did not use that tape to keep her quiet. There was no residue from the tape found on her wide open mouth.
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JMO

ThinkTank · Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 3742

nofoolin and Liam,

Not suscribing to Liams theory necessarily, but, if the mastermind of this plot orchestrated it as he has suggested..... He never had to worry about the child making noise because it was his intention to kill her after they left her there. The three pawns could be naive enough to believe the promise of money and the child being unharmed in her own home. I mean what reasonably intelligent person is going to risk being caught for kidnapping over $118,000? That fact right there speaks of a lack of sophistication. Also, is it possible the three pawns believed that the ransom would be paid without notifying the police? Even if the police were called and they proceeded to search the house completely. They locate the child alive and well as the pawns believed she would be found.... they probably believed she wouldnt be able to identify them. Which leads us to the question of... could she identify the "mastermind"? It is a complicated theory but, if you think about it.... it is not impossible to believe. Also, I do believe the tape was over her mouth. Didn't John Ramsey remove it upon discovering her body?

But now the question that is begging to be asked is..... Why involve other people.... if it is your intention to kill the child for vengence? Is that step part of an added measure of insurance in case the initial grab is detected? But, why would you need three pawns instead of one or two? If you used fewer persons... you could effectively set someone else up for the fall if the worst were to happen. If the police actually made an arrest of your pawn or pawns. Especially if your pawn had a record of breaking and entering or burglary. I would think the more persons telling the same story and implicating the same "partner" is again very risky.

Interesting theory, but were any of them gnomes? lol sorry had to add some levidity after that thought process.

Think
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Not all heros wear capes.... But most wear underwear! Exception... Jumpin Jack Flash doesnt wear undies but he is a hero anyway!

nofoolin · Joined: 16 Feb 2006 Posts: 210

“Also, I do believe the tape was over her mouth. Didn't John Ramsey remove it upon discovering her body?” (Think Tank)

Well, there was no residue from the tape found on her mouth. I don’t know why John would say he removed the tape. If there was a piece of tape on her mouth, I doubt it was functional. It may have just been laying on top of her mouth but not stuck to it. Anyway, here is an autopsy photo of her with her mouth wide open.

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfaceright.jpg

You said : “He never had to worry about the child making noise because it was his intention to kill her after they left her there.”

Right, he didn’t have to worry, but the other 3 didn’t know she was going to be killed right after they left.

I agree that there are just too many people involved in this theory.
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JMO

rumaj · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject:

Not trying to be pert or rude, but there was a little girl who's dead body was found dead on Christmas Eve in her basement.

Her name was Rebecca Haney. I posted on this case before the board got pirated.

She was 2 years old.
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Babineau Found Guilty

Melissa Babineau has been found guilty of murdering 2 year old Rebecca Haney.

The jury delivered its verdict after deliberating for more than two days.

Many family members burst into tears afterwards.

Two year old Rebecca Haney was found dead on Christmas Eve of 2003 in the Embro farmhouse where she lived.

Her mother's former partner, the 27-year old Babineau, was charged with second degree murder and committing an indignity to a human body.

The defence still hasn't decided if it will appeal.

Sentencing has been set for April 24th. The jury has recommended that Babineau serve 25 years before becoming eligible for parole.

This was in Ontario, Canada.
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"Sell Crazy Someplace Else. We're all stocked up here."

Line from the movie As Good As It Gets